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  Sent by: waterinwater@gmail.com  Mostra tutti i messaggi di waterinwater@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Charmides
Newsgroup: humanities.classics
Date: 12/15/2017
Time: 08:52:00
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  Having discovered this alternately delightful, hilarious and tragic thread,=
which concluded almost 15 years ago, I felt it was worth our time to ampli=
fy what several discussants have highlighted as Davidius most studious, 71 =
hour error (I wonder: how many hours might he have put into the dialog sinc=
e 2004? Perhaps he has abandoned philosophy).
My contribution is just to say that what some here have said about the impo=
rtance of dramatic context - a context which includes difficult and troubli=
ng matters of sexuality, ones I think Plato knew full well were difficult a=
nd troubling - seems to me to be what is primarily important in Platonism t=
oday. I will illustrate with two references.
1) Eric Havelock, in the 'Davidian' camp, argues that the greatness of Plat=
onism is reducible to its logical premises, and that that reduction is prec=
isely Plato's aim. For Havelock, this indicates a deficit in Plato and an =
error of reductionism which has dogged Western science for 2400 years.
2) Gregory Bateson, on the other had, himself claims (in Steps to an Ecolog=
y of Mind and more explicitly in Mind and Nature) to have put forth a Plato=
nic view. For Bateson, the "understanding" of dramatic context (and what k=
ind "understanding" is this, "understanding" of the CONTEXT OF NORMAL DISCU=
RSIVE 'UNDERSTANDING?') is of primary importance, in a vast and nearly unli=
mited sense. Occidental reason has suffered (he agrees with Havelock) due =
to its ignorance of the great dark depths of 'context' - Bateson disagrees,=
however, that Plato himself suffered from this deficit.
Finally, Bateson made the issue of dramatic context EXPLICIT and CLEAR (as =
possible) in his "Metalogs", mostly published in Etc., the journal of Gener=
al Semantics, in the 50s-60s. A "metalog" as he defined it, is a dialog wh=
ere the dramatic context in some way resembles the explicit subject of disc=
Which is of course also the key characteristic of Platonic dialog we are co=
nsidering here.

Which leads to a concluding point: perhaps it really is true that all learn=
ing is a remembering, a remembering of what generations of fear and excessi=
ve rigour in the face of troubling and difficult matters have covered over.

da leggere waterinwater@gmail.com 12/15 08:52
Re: Charmides
   da leggere Will Parsons 12/19 16:39
Re: Charmides






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